Bro Thata Rosal (CFD) VS Pastor Rodrigo Mendija (SDA-Reform)_Purgatory

“Akong Pamatud-an nga ang Purgatoryo bilangoan sa mga espirito o kalag nga giwalihan ni Jesu-Cristo sumala sa mabasa sa Biblia.”

March 13, 2013

Affirmative Side: Bro. Thata Rosal (Catholic Faith Defender)
Negative Side: Bro. Rodrigo Mendija (SDA-Reformed)

Encoder/ Cameraman: G-one T. Paisones (Catholic Faith Defender)
Cameraman: Bro. Lord John (Catholic Faith Defender)

Moderator: Pastror Roly Lumo

Time Keepers:
Eddie Baludo (Piniling Nasud)
Max Capisnon (SDA-Reformed)

This debate was aired lived in the following:
AM Radio: DXDD 657 Khz
TV: Ozamiz Cable channel 16
Internet: www.catholicfaithdefenders.com
Video Upload: www.youtube.com

Purgatory in the Word: A Response and Defense of Purgatory

Purgatory in the Word: A Response and Defense of Purgatory

By: Rigo Vega

Retrieve from: http://www.facebook.com/notes/rigoberto-vega/purgatory-in-the-word-a-response-to-charles-stanleys-a-word-about-purgatory/363421784987


purgatory pergatory purgetory Purgatory in the Word: A Response and Defense of Purgatory

A dear friend of mine sent me this article by Charles Stanley, who I often enjoy listening to on the radio for his deep expositing and clear biblical teaching. Though I have a deep respect for this great teacher and minister who was one of the first Christian preachers I listened to early in my spiritual walk with the Lord, I must now disagree with him. True to his style, I’ll argue from Scripture.

I argue that not only is Purgatory based on ancient Jewish and Christian practice, but that it is based on Scripture, albeit implicitly or not. In fact, I believe most Protestant Christians believe in Purgatory or are open to accepting the teaching when it is properly explained to them. I was once at an Intervarsity Christian Fellowship meeting when a visiting speaker, a Pastor, was teaching on sanctification and quoted Romans 8:29: “For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son…” (see also Colossians 3:10). The Pastor mentioned that although Christians contribute nothing towards their justification, because it is by faith alone (Protestant view) and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ upon us and not by our works (forensic view of justification), he acknowledged that Christians must cooperate with the work of the Holy Spirit in our sanctification. At first, I wondered, if it’s possible to cooperate with God’s grace towards sanctification, why is it “anathema” to suggest that we can cooperate with God’s grace for our justification? But then an even greater question occurred to me.

The Pastor went on to explain how Christians are responsible for their growth in holiness by reading the Word, prayer, and conforming ourselves to the character of Christ. He said, no one will ever be perfectly holy, because we are sinners until the day we die, but after we die we will be conformed fully to the likeness of Christ. At which, I shouted internally and desperately wanted to ask him “What would you describe the process or event in which a Christian is made perfectly holy and conformed fully to the likeness of Christ after he dies?

But first, in case, there might be those who think the Pastor was off in his explanation and that we don’t need to be sanctified once we are believers, I present the following Scriptures: “”Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48) and 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says “It is God’s will that you should be sanctified”. Though Acts 26:18 says we are “sanctified by faith” in him, Scripture also says we are “sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy” (1 Cor. 1:2). Furthermore, “Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God” (2 Cor. 7:1). Though some might point to Hebrews 10:14 which says, “because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.” Hebrews also says “Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). It is clear to me that after looking at all of the biblical data, in Hebrews 10:14 the author is speaking of the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice to make us perfect in that we are perfectly cleansed from all of our sins, but clearly we are still called to live and grow in holiness.

Why is it important that we need to be perfected? Well, because that is what the process of final purification which Catholics call Purgatory actually is, the completion of our sanctification by which we are made perfectly holy. The Bible teaches clearly that “without holiness no one will see the Lord” and regarding Heaven it says “Nothing impure will ever enter” (Rev. 21:27). So then, what about our impurities? What about our sins which haven’t been confessed or dealt with properly in our lives? How am I freed from my attachments to sinful things and areas of imperfection? How am I actually made perfectly holy? A forensic view of salvation which states that a sinner is only declared righteous by God, rather than actually being made righteous by God, leaves no room for answers to these questions. It also leaves no room for the following bible passages:
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames (Romans 3:11-15).

Jesus Christ is the foundation, because it is through his merits that he gained salvation for us and he justifies us, but we must build on it through good works. If our works are good, we will receive our reward, but if our works are burned up in the “fire” then we will suffer loss, we ourselves will be saved, but by “escaping through the flames.” Are you following these words from St. Paul? The fire will test the quality of “each man’s work.” Where does this fire come from in Scripture? Read Isaiah 6: 1-7. Isaiah acknowledges he is a man of “unclean lips” but the angel purifies him by touching his mouth with a “live coal.” The fire purges Isaiah of his guilt and atones for his sins. What or who is the fire? Catholics proclaim “Our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29: also see Deut. 4:24). Though it is clear St. Paul is referring to judgment day as the “Day,” he is also referring to our personal judgment which happens right after we die since that is when we will be judged 1st.

And so, when you get justification wrong and you diminish the need for working towards our sanctification, than of course, you are left wondering, doesn’t the doctrine of Purgatory demean the power of the blood of Christ to wash away and atone for our sins? No, because Purgatory isn’t about forgiveness from the eternal consequence of our sins which affect our position in the family of God, it is about the secondary effects of sin which are temporal and need to be dealt with in this life or in “the age to come” (Matthew 12:32).

In 2 Samual 12, God forgives David and removes the eternal consequence of his sin, but David still suffers an earthly/temporal punishment: “”The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, [a] the son born to you will die.” This is one of many examples one could point out. In Leviticus, the sinner brings a ram to the priest to atone for his sins (the roots of confession), but he must also make restitution for whatever he has stolen or seek reconciliation with those he has sinned against. These earthly/temporal effects of sin are what need to be dealt with by restoring what our disobedience has broken. A popular analogy is the broken window analogy. If I break your window, you can forgive me if I say I’m sorry, but the window is still broken. The next step is for me to pay for the window so that everything is as it once was before my sin. The chaos of sin needs to be restored fully and we have a part to play.

Jesus said regarding being reconciled with our brother, “I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59). In Purgatory, all the debts we haven’t paid in this life are paid for, and all of our lack of holiness, charity, and purity, is dealt with and purified in the fire of God’s love. This is, in part, the doctrine of Purgatory which is so often rejected and maligned. I will close with a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Purgatory is a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.” Rather than being a 2nd chance at heaven it is for those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

(Notice, I defended the doctrine of Purgatory without quoting the Holy Book of Maccabees. Take that Luther!).

May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercies of God, rest in peace!

God Bless You,
Rigo Vega

Dagdag na patunay sa Purgatoryo

Dagdag na patunay sa Purgatoryo

By: Bro. Cenon Bibe Jr.

 Dagdag na patunay sa Purgatoryo

SA KATATAPOS po nating post ay ipinaliwanag natin kung ano ang PURGATORYO at ipinakita natin ang mga BATAYAN nito sa LUMANG TIPAN at sa BAGONG TIPAN.

Sinabi po natin na diyan sa PURGATORYO NILILINIS o PINATATAWAD ang mga KASALANAN sa KABILANG BUHAY.

Kahit po kasi INILIGTAS na tayo ng PANGINOON sa pamamagitan ng PAGBUBUHOS NIYA ng DUGO sa KRUS ay may mga pagkakataon na NARURUMIHAN uli ang ating KALULUWA dahil sa mga KASALANAN na ating NAGAGAWA.

Ngayon, sa ating pagpanaw sa mundong ito ay may mga kasalanan po na DALA-DALA pa rin natin. Iyan po ang mga HINDI natin NAIHINGI ng TAWAD dito.

At kahit po MALIIT na KASALANAN lang iyan ay magiging DAHILAN IYAN para HINDI TAYO MAKAPASOK AGAD sa LANGIT.

Kahit po kasi ang MALIIT na MALING GAWA ay KASALANAN.

Sabi nga po sa 1 John 5:17, “Ang LAHAT ng MALING GAWA ay KASALANAN.”

At dahil KASALANAN ang KAHIT MALIIT na MALING GAWA, magiging HADLANG po iyan sa PAGPASOK natin sa LANGIT.

Saan po makikita na HADLANG ang MALIIT na MALING GAWA o MALIIT na KASALANAN sa PAGPASOK sa LANGIT?

Sa Revelation 21:27 po ay mababasa natin, “WALANG MARUMI na MAKAPAPASOK” sa LANGIT.

So para po MAKAPASOK tayo sa LANGIT ay KAILANGANG MALINIS o MAPATAWAD ang MALIIT na KASALANAN na iyan.

Ang PAGLILINIS o PAGPAPATAWAD ng KASALANAN sa KABILANG BUHAY ay doon ginagawa sa PURGATORYO.

Ang Panginoong Hesus po ang mismong NAGSABI may PAGPAPATAWAD PA ng KASALANAN sa KABILANG BUHAY.

Sa Matthew 12:32 ay sinasabi niya, “Sino man ang magsalita laban sa Anak ng Tao ay mapapatawad, pero sino man ang magsalita laban sa Espiritu Santo ay HINDI PATATAWARIN, DITO sa PANAHONG ITO o sa DARATING NA PANAHON.”

Ang tinutukoy po riyan na “PANAHON ITO” ay ang BUHAY dito sa LUPA at ang “DARATING NA PANAHON” ay ang sa KABILANG BUHAY.

Meron pong nangangatwiran na ang ibig sabihin daw ni Hesus diyan ay “noong panahon nila” at sa “panahon sa hinaharap o sa future.”

MALI po ang PAKAHULUGAN nilang iyan.

Parang pinalalabas nila na kung may kasalanan na hindi napatawad nung UNANG SIGLO ay mapapatawad na iyon pagdating sa IKALAWANG SIGLO o pagdating ng PANAHON NATIN.

Ganoon? May EXPIRATION DATE po ba ang KASALANAN?

WALA po.

Kaya MALINAW po na ang tinutukoy na DARATING na PANAHON ay ang sa KABILANG BUHAY.

Dahil diyan ay PINATUTUNAYAN ni KRISTO na MAYROONG PURGATORYO o LINISAN ng KASALANAN.

Sa Mt 5:25-26 po ay ipinapakita uli ng PANGINOON ang IMAHEN ng PURGATORYO.

Sinasabi riyan ni Hesus, “Makipagkasundo ka agad sa umaakusa sa iyo habang papunta kayo sa hukuman, o ang nag-aakusa sa iyo ay ibibigay ka sa huwes, ang huwes ay ibibigay ka sa bantay, at ikaw ay itatapon sa KULUNGAN.”

“Tunay na sinasabi ko sa iyo, HINDI KA MAKAKALABAS DOON HANGGA’T HINDI MO NABABAYARAN ang KAHULI-HULIHANG MAMERA.”

“UTANG” po bang PERA ang tinutukoy ni Hesus diyan? O kasalanan po ba si lipunan ang tinutumbok ng talata?

HINDI po. Kung titingnan po natin ang mga kasamang talata ng Mt 5:25-26 ay makikita po natin na ang tinutukoy diyan ay KASALANAN sa KAPWA o KASALANAN sa DIYOS.

Sa Mt 5:22 pa nga po ay tinukoy ang KASALANAN na sa IMPIYERNO ang LAGPAK ng TAO?

Ngayon, SAAN po ba NAGBABAYAD ng KALIIT-LIITANG KASALANAN kapag HUMARAP na tayo sa HUWES o sa DIYOS na HUHUSGA sa ATIN?

HINDI po sa LANGIT dahil WALA pong MARUMI na PAPASOK DOON. (Rev 21:27)

HINDI rin po sa IMPIYERNO dahil WALA na pong KAPATAWARAN ang mga NAROON.

So, SAAN iyang sinasabi ni Hesus na “KULUNGAN” kung saan PAGBABAYARAN NATIN ang LAHAT “hanggang sa KAHULI-HULIHANG MAMERA” o KASALANAN?

Sa PURGATORYO po.

So, MALINAW at MARAMI po ang mga PATUNAY mula sa BIBLIYA na MAY PURGATORYO. Ang walang batayan ay ang mga pagtutol dito.

Salamat po.

Nasa Bible ba ang purgatoryo?

Nasa Bible ba ang purgatoryo?

By: Bro. Cenon Bibe Jr.

 Nasa Bible ba ang purgatoryo?

BIGYANG daan po natin ang text ng isang sumubaybay noon sa column natin sa Tumbok.

Sabi niya:
“Malapit na naman ang Undas at paboritong pag-usapan na naman ng ibang sekta ang purgatoryo. San ba sinabi sa Bible na may purgatoryo?”

Salamat po.

Ang paniniwala po nating mga Katoliko sa Purgatoryo ay NAKABATAY sa sinasabi ng BIBLIYA na may mga kasalanan na NAPAPATAWAD sa KABILANG BUHAY.

Sa 2 Maccabees 12:43-44 at 46 ay sinasabi, “Nagpakulekta siya [si Judas Macabeo] sa kanyang mga sundalo na umabot sa 2,000 drachma. Ipinadala nila ito sa Herusalem bilang alay sa ikapapatawad ng kanilang kasalanan.”

“Sa ginawa niyang ito, gumawa siya ng isang NAPAKAGALING at KAHANGA-HANGANG BAGAY hangga’t ang nasa isip niya ay ang pagkabuhay na muli ng mga patay.”

“Dahil kung hindi niya inaasahan ang pagkabuhay muli ng mga nagupo, walang saysay at kalokohan na lang ang pananalangin para sa mga namatay.”

“Kaya nga gumawa siya ng pag-aalay para sa mga patay nang sila ay MAPALAYA SA KASALANAN.”

PURIHIN ang DIYOS!

Ang pag-aalay raw po para sa IKAPAPATAWAD ng KASALANAN ng NAMATAY ay “isang NAPAKAGALING at KAHANGA-HANGANG BAGAY.”

At iyan daw po ay kaugnay sa “INAASAHAN [na] PAGKABUHAY MULI” o RESURRECTION.

So, ang PANINIWALA po sa PANANALANGIN sa PAGPAPATAWAD ng KASALANAN sa KABILANG BUHAY ay BAHAGI ng PANINIWALA ng mga UMAASA sa PAGKABUHAY na MULI.

Ang tanong po ay SAAN BA NAGAGANAP ang PAGPAPATAWAD sa KASALANAN doon sa KABILANG BUHAY?

Iyan po ay nagaganap sa PURGATORYO.

Ang PURGATORYO po kasi ay galing sa LATIN na PURGARE na ang kahulugan ay GAWING MALINIS o GAWING DALISAY.

So, ang PURGATORYO po ay kung saan NILILINIS o DINADALISAY ang KALULUWA ng isang TAO.

Bakit po kailangang LINISIN o DALISAYIN ang isang KALULUWA sa KABILANG BUHAY?

Dahil po ayon sa BIBLIYA, partikular sa Revelation 21:27, “WALANG MARUMI na MAKAPAPASOK doon [LANGIT].”

So, MALIWANAG po na MAY PURGATORYO sa BIBLIYA at ang BATAYAN nito ay parehong nasa LUMANG TIPAN (2 Mac 12:43-44, 46) at sa BAGONG TIPAN (Rev 21:27).

Pero tiyak pong kukuwestiyunin ng mga HINDI KATOLIKO ang paggamit natin sa aklat ng MACABEO.

Sasabihin nila “hindi kasama sa Bibliya ang Maccabees.”

Sa SALIN po na gamit NILA ay malamang na walang Maccabees, pero sa ORIHINAL na BIBLIYA na batay sa mga kasulatan na GINAMIT ni HESUS, ng mga APOSTOL at ng mga UNANG KRISTIYANO ay KASAMA po ang MACCABEES

Ang KASULATAN po na GINAMIT nina KRISTO ay ang SEPTUAGINT o ang GREEK VERSION ng LUMANG TIPAN.

Sa SEPTUAGINT po ay KASAMA ang MACCABEES at TIYAK na BINASA rin ng PANGINOONG HESUS at ng mga APOSTOL.

Kaya nga po mismong ang PANGINOONG HESUS ay NANGARAL na MAY KAPATAWARAN PA ng KASALANAN sa KABILANG BUHAY.

Ipinakita Niya iyan sa Matthew 12:32.

Sabi riyan ng Panginoon, “Sino man na magsalita laban sa Anak ng Tao ay mapapatawad.”

“Pero sino man ang magsalita laban sa Espiritu Santo ay hindi mapapatawad sa panahon na ito o kahit pa sa DARATING NA PANAHON.”

Ang “darating na panahon” na tinutukoy rito ay ang “KABILANG BUHAY.”

So, si KRISTO po mismo ay NAGPAHAYAG na MAY KAPATAWARAN pa ng KASALANAN sa KABILANG BUHAY.

At muli po, ang TAWAG natin kung saan PINATATAWAD ang mga KASALANAN ay PURGATORYO.

Sa PURGATORYO po kasi NILILINIS ang KASALANAN ng TAONG sumakabilang buhay na.

So, MALINAW po ang BATAYAN ng PURGATORYO sa KABILANG BUHAY.

At MALINAW rin po na ang PANINIWALA sa PURGATORYO ay MAHALAGA sa mga TAONG UMAASA pa ng PAGKABUHAY na MULI. (2Mac 12:43-44, 46)

Kaya po ang iba na ‘DI NANINIWALA sa PURGATORYO ay maaaring HINDI na UMASA sa PAGKABUHAY na MULI.